Oh, 'yelling' I never yell at my dog and yelling is not a training method I have ever heard of as such UNLESS the dog is trained to understand the reason for yelling, it then might well become an effective training method, whats wrong with that?????

Words such as 'kind' 'crule' 'inhumane' etc are nothing more than subjective terms indicating the limits of the individual, who describes what is cruel or kind etc, to relate to their own dog, eg it is cruel to me to give an endless supply of those awful pet shop tit bits, however, some people would say that is kind.

Some people would say I am selfish and others cruel because I would NEVER allow a tit bit even to be given to him let alone me give him one. (he is trained to drop any object at any distance, hearing permitted).

Neither point is right or wrong and neither deprivation of tit bits is cruel or the giving of tit bits is cruel.It defines the personal limitations of the individuals way to treat their dog.

Avaunt, It's nice to hear someone else who doesn't use treats to train their dogs, I never have, they get good old love & affection as a reward, something I have plenty of. I don't yell at them, sometimes I shout and they will respond immediately. As I said before, I have a strong bond with my dogs and they are eager to please.
You are so right about GSDs being easy dogs, it came as a total shock when I got the GSP how much different they are, had to look again at training but the basics are the same and we got there in the end with a lot of of help from Leigh, (breed specialist), Ingrid

OK so I used the wrong word yelling or shouting comes down to the same thing if the dogs are at a distance. To me a Yell is of a higher pitch which dogs can hear better, a bit like a whistle.

What I was trying to say was if any of my dogs misbehave they know by the tone of my voice that they have gone over the limit and react to my reaction. By the way I am not talking about taking one or two dogs out for a run, I run and control a pack of 9, usually on the beach and they have to be under my control at all times even when running free. Can you imagine 9 BT's advancing at speed on some unsuspecting pet dog owner.

Sorry Avaunt maybe I don't always put things in the right way and no that is not a training method it is my way of controlling my dogs say in the situation where they are running free and heading towards a road and I want them to stop immediately and return to me I will YELL or SHOUT their names with a come here. I expect them to react immediately to the tone that I am using, which in that instance is a warning tone!!!!! Better a YELL than a dead dog and possibly a dog that has caused an accident.

only my way of training my dogs but it works!!!

Regards

Daz

Just out of curiosity, Avaunt, what kind of dog do you have? Does it even have a name?

I don't remember any mention of a name or breed in any of your postings other what you just said about dropping food & leaving it--even at a distance.. ( Sorry, I don't find that too remarkable, I could do it with my deaf 12yr. Yorkie using just hand signals. All of my dogs are trained to do it even with their most fav. food, for their health & safety - it's an easy skill to learn)

But I do find it odd that you never mention anything about your own dog/s quirks, foibles, or experiences on any postings. Everyone talks about their dogs.... except you. Although I've been here a month, I have gotten a sense of personality from everyone about their lives with dogs....but not you. You're just a posting in the wind
I only see you dealing with abstract & hypothetical solutions, such as so-called popular emotives & behaviorists. Certain topics get your goat, but that's about it. Nothing you have posted in the past is really helpful to getting a sense that there is a person writing for pleasure. Instead, it does tend to be repetitive editorial statements lambasting certain ideals, similar to politics.

From your writing style, I have a picture of you as being dictatorial & authorative, not at all approachable & human. I"m not trying to offend, but mend fences perhaps. I know it's difficult sometimes to read behind bland postings... but I'm curious to know just a little bit more, so I might be able to respect your opinions better & not roll my eyes at another tirade.

Is there a person who loves/likes dogs behind the nomenclature of Avaunt? What do you do? Do you train dogs, breed, rescue them, fancy them, enjoy their company, laugh at their doggy humour? Do you have a puppy, or a favorite dog that makes you satisfied in life? Or is this discussion board just an opportunity for you to get on a soap box?
It's ok if that's your intention... that's your choice... but I'll bow out of the Hyde Park debates, if that's ok with you....or not :D :D
toodles

Iam wondering if your post will be answered toodles, I am also curious to know if there is a dog loving owner of some breed behind the posts ,as up to now we only see the dictator post . I can see what you mean by building bridges Toodles is that possible , . I would like to know if Avaunt ever admitted like the rest of us to being in the wrong at times . we mortals not being infallible. I suppose we will be left wondering Mari

Avaunt and Ingrid. If you are ever in Scotland , please come and see my dogs. They are well behaved and very happy. They are also my best friends. Which, if I may say is not necessarily true of those those who insist upon treating them as people - and not even smalll.children at that. My dogs do get titbits. They also give me pigs eaars and bones on asking - not yelling..

Hi Ingrid, yes I agree it's sooooo refreshing to hear someone who is actualy enjoying their DOG as such.

The building of the pack drive with praise and game rewards is the foundation to a highly enjoyable, close and I find very, very fullfiling relationship and its really good to hear someone say thats how they understand their dog.

The praise and game rewards, especialy from day one are the very foundations of a problem free life with a dog, regardless of breed.

Tit bits etc heighten the prey drive, when a dog is trained on prey drive what appears to be obedience is not fundamental obedience. In prey drive the dog focuses on what attracts them most at the time, if an attraction which is greater to the dog occurs then off the dog will go.

Prey drive also exhausts, when the dog gets bored up with repetition it simply goes on to something else and the relationship is neglected, if existant at all.

Training as you did on pack drive, developing the bond, watching the dog taking notice of what you want of him and then rushing back after WILLINGLY completing task, as if the world is a joy, to recieve the praise or game reward. Yes that is a true human other species profound relationship built on pack drive.

Pack drive never exhausts and the dog is a real companion other species friend at ALL times, not just when nothing more interesting attracts it.

As regards coming back in prey drive for a tit bit and then ruuning off again in acse it gets put on the lead...ARRRGGGHHHHHH!

I have a Dobermann but I only have German Dobermanns, I used to have English till very early 80's but they messed up the breed.

I will only have German now, my next is due a year this coming June, they are working lines.

I’ll be in Bonnie Scotland through August at that wonderful festival you have in Old Reekie, maybe see you then.

I had a nice answer & it vanished when I posted
Anyway, a dog comes, sits, gets hooked up to the lead, and then gets a small tidbit. This works well in the future. Dog does this automatically & waits. Nowhere have I ever chased my dog after she saw the lead. In fact, they turn & see it in my hand & race back to me. :D Sometimes they get a treat.... sometimes they don't. Life's a gamble :D :D :D
toodles

Sharon, I'd love to get back to Scotland sometime, it's a lovely part of the country, and will certainly let you know if I do, I love meeting dogs and owners. I do give my dogs treat and tit bits, just not for training always bring them something back when I go shopping, they sulk if I don't, Mmmm perhaps they have me trained not the other way round. Ingrid

Bravo to you all, we are too dependant on so called experts to sort ours and our pets problems when common sense goes a long way, my girls have not been trained as such and never hit,(I don't include a smack on the bum in that statement, as they have had that once or twice) but I can take them anywhere and have done, non doogy friends houses, Fetes, beech,etc... They travel well and love people,come when called, and would't dream of running off, what more do we want from pets?

Sam so sorry about the ewe, which is where this all began, can't offer any other words of comfort that have'nt already been expessed here but my thoughts are with you.

KIm

Ingrid and Avaunt, you would be most seriously welcome to visit if at asll possible. My part of Scotland is not as magnificent as the Higlands, but it is coming down in history. Needless to say beds (and whiskey :D) will be provided - as long as you don't mind sharing both with the odd deerhound and wolfhound

Sharon all of Scotland is such a wonderful place. As you know we have just come back from our travels up in your neck of the woods and did not want to come home!! next time we travel up will let you know would love to meet you dogs.

Julieann

Julieann, I'm glad that you enjoyed the Scottish Borders, and I'll look forward to seeing you the next time you are up - as long as you don't mind me talking dogs, dogs and dogs that is :D

Thank you for the invite Sharon, I don't mind at all sharing my bed with the dogs, do that at home, amazing how they can find the smallest space and take up all the room by the morning, make wonderful heaters in the winter, and I could happily talk dogs all day. Ingrid

Hi Sharon, what a lovely invitation, that would be great.

I love driveing through the borders to Old Reekie that time of year.

But my poor old dog has to be kept completly out of sunlight, his tear ducts dried up and several other genetic problems.

He has to have artificial tears in one eye many, many times a day and a bit less in other.

His dad was a German import but his mother is from English stock, the mix just threw off several faults but they were all that was around at the time.

He's confined to cloudy days anywhere but a bright day like this it's woodland or very shaded areas only, nice week for it, bluebell week.

Yes I knew several people with Wolfhounds, one used to play with my last dog but he sadly had a genetic problem and had to be put down before he was 2.

I did notice at the time he really didn't seem to need much training at all,large loveable dog but not a bit of problem.

Hi Avaunt. I wonder could you tell me what a "genetic problem" is please purely because I do not know what it means!! Thanks Gina

Dear Avaunt, sorry your dog has so many problems, but if I could make a suggestion, have you tried Lacrilube for his dry eye? It works better and lasts longer than artificial tears. There are also other modern artificial tear products that work better than the 'standard' ones. As far as I know thay are on prescriptions for human use - but there is always a way around these things . I'm a human style ophthalmologist, so if you think I might be able to help, please do e-mail me.

I have to agree. I had a spell of dry eayes, and artificial teers didn't work well, but the Lacrilube was much better, so I used it in the day as well as night!