I have an 11 week old dobe pup. We're conquering the biting, but now he's got really sneaky and bites from behind, then runs off. Does anyone have any ideas???

Water pistol and be ready for him? Or (as I was told) a jif lemon squeezy bottle filled with water?

HTH
Melody

apologies melodysk. It did appear as if the 2 subjects were conflicting. Maybe I am worring too much but in reading all previous info about biting and mouthing, grabbing the dogs muzzle has never been mentioned. I didn't realise quite what a daunting task owning a dobermann pup was, although the good definitely outweighs the bad. Another thing I was quite shocked at was the prejudice towards Dobes from other people!!!

It is such hard work when you get a *mouthy* puppy I know becuase my own little sweetie pie is like that. He is now nearly 6 months old and is STILL not adverse to nipping your bum given half a chance. He doesn't bite as such now , but will take your hand in his mouth and try to lead you around ...which we dont allow as he can be rough without realising it

Good Luck !

:D

I know what you mean about the predudice about people and Dobe puppies or Dobie's in general, it wasn't until we had our first Ridgeback pup that I realised how many people said Hello to my Ridge puppy and looking back on it now avoided my Dobie pup. How is the puppy to learn that people love them unless they make a fuss of them as puppy's?

Good luck with your pup and you will have many a lovely tale to tell by the time he/she grows up. My last Dobe loved 'mints' (especially when they were pinched out of peoples handbags!)

'Chelle...

Don't turn your back on him <g>
~~
Does/did anyone laugh at him when he does this.

If you are managing to stop him mouthing and biting where you can see him then could you use the same methods when he gets you from behind. If not set up a situation where he is likely to come at you from behind and catch him then.

Christine

Thanks Christine

Nobody laughs at him as it definitely isn't funny when he sinks those little fangs in. This is our first dobermann and just want to get it right, so many thanks for the info. Apart from that he's a little peach

I know what you mean about the reactions from other people......we had 3 dobes many moons ago (in the ealy 8o's) and it was terrifying to go anywhere if you were likely to meet "the public", they would grab their dogs screaming & swear at you if they were off the lead! to the point that after the last one died I never had another, despite absolutely adoring them, its so sad as mine were very obedient, they all worked and never would have hurt anyone/thing. Good luck with your puppy, they can be a boisterous handful at times, but the main thing is to remain the BOSS. Never let the nipping become a "game". At the risk of all the behaviourists or whatever they are, shouting at me, I would try & set up a situation so you know he is going to come up behind you & nip, then whip around just as he does it, push him to the ground and be very fierce, saying "no" loudly. Its a question of being very short & sharp & getting the timing right so you frighten him. No doubt someone will say I am advocating cruel training, but IT WORKS ON THIS OCCASION!!! (and its not cruel)

Sam wrote:
<, I would try & set up a situation so you know he is going to come up behind you & nip, then whip around just as he does it, push him to the ground and be very fierce, saying "no" loudly. Its a question of being very short & sharp & getting the timing right so you frighten him. No doubt someone will say I am advocating cruel training, but IT WORKS ON THIS OCCASION!!! (and its not cruel) >

and she put it much better than I did !

It would not even occur to me that this was cruel but the timing IS VERY IMPORTANT so is the SHORT AND SHARP.

A quick "ENOUGH" is much more impressive to a pup than "don't-do-that-it-hurts-you-are-a -bad- boy" which means very little

Christine

Just receiving answers like this is so reassuring. So, many thanks everyone for the help and advice

I apologise for my absence I must have been sorely missed, I was seeing a Herr and Frau or two about dogs.
Well you sound like you have an active Dobe there.
The reason he is doing it is a follow up from his litter peers as well as the bitch.
Before he left the litter a natural system of pack rank behaviour between him and his peers and ‘training’ by the brood bitch had already begun and his behaviour, designed to establish his own rank, was already a well established habit. When you got him, he’d been at it most of his life.
The various forms of his behaviour your experiencing are his attempts to maintain or gain dominance within the pack (your family). It is natural for him to attempt to achieve rank and the biting is one of many behaviours he is using to establish his leader (alpha) role.
I cannot give any suggestions as to how you deal with it, in writing, as it rarely bears resemblance or relevance to the real minuet by minuet situation. What I will say is that whatever method you find works well you must be 100% consistent with it.
If you combine the word NO or equivalent just prior to a correction then you must at all costs enforce that correction EVERY time. If you use ‘NO’ or equivalent and then when he ignores you, which he undoubtedly will sometimes, he will learn that he doesn’t need to take any notice of you at all.
Before long many people let them get away with ingnoring NO and say it many times whilst the dog ingnores it, he will have succesfully trained 'you' if that happens, consequently he will interpret that as you being an inferior member of the pack and him in a leader role.
The fact that he is a cute, fun little Dobe is a VERY temporary state, nine months down the line he will not be so small. Not long ago the Rottie which bit yesterday was a cute little thing looking like a Tawny owl crossed with a dog, vulnerable and up for spoils.Yesterday that perception changed.
The problem with Dobes in UK is that the vast majority have been bred as hobby or show dogs, there are some which are bred for sports or with a good working potential but few people want or get hold of these.The problem with the hobby or show bred dogs is that once in a while, and maybe never, a dog is born which is called a ‘throwback’, it means it carries many of the characteristics of a dog or several dogs with some specific characteristics from its ancestors, these might be show characteristics but also they might be working characteristics from some long gone European ancestor.
If someone ends up with a Dobe with drives and character traits for working capacity and that dog learns to control its environment as it pleases, as a pup. If that happens it is going to grow up as potential liability and certainly not an enjoyment.
I know there is one currently in Dobe rescue which will probably never leave. From time to time Dobe rescue still has to take in a dominant which has simply never been taught its place in the pack as a pup, gets to mature and simply will not accept a low rank in that first pack.
Dobe rescue will re-house if possible but only to someone experienced with these dominants and even then it’s not so easy.
Having said all that there is no problem at all with Dobes which have a good working drives providing they are brought up properly and a pup such as your is at an ideal age for learning, this is when it starts.
So if you find a method then apply it consistently, your dog will grow up as a positive part of the family, high drive Dobes with working character traits, unless deliberately bred, are not very common in UK, but it is a factor to be taken into account whilst the dog is at age where it can be taught its limits.
Good Luck, or better, good consistancy.

PS...If you want to see the daily living with a dog which is pack leader (alpha dog is the 'trendy' word) go back to No7 at the bottom of the behaviour topic page and open all those by 'Banger' right back and forwards to present day.

As someone who has lived with both, I have never seen a rottie look like a tawny owl!

We had a pair of snowy owls for about 15mths when I was a child, never had Tawny owls though.

We currently have a large cut out Owl that goes almost everywhere with Jonathon. He stuck a picture onto some cardboard and then glued a stick to the back of it so he can carry it around with him. He's obsessed with Harry Potter and loves Owls

Fiona
x x x

I always thought it an odd sort of message that on the same day which I had to have Pepper pts, a huge Great Horned Owl perched above me in the tree in my back yard for about two hours. I'd never seen one around there before, nor afterwards.

There are many myths about owls and spirits in Native American folklore that I came across around that region. I took it as some sort of sign that all was well with her and that she forgave me. Might sound corny, but I did feel much better after that.
toodles

Never done did sarwe a dawg that looked like them owlfolks --- fur & feathers t'aint easily confused by us ejumicated fulks

Sorry Eog dont mean to say the wrong thing here but Paul McCartney said that an owl told him that Linda said it was okay for him to get married again (31 years married to Linda and then finds someone else within 9 months I bet she said it was okay!!!)

PS Glad you felt better after you saw your owl though.

Gina

PPS this is a bit of the subject so everyone just ignore it !!!

Hiya - welcome to the world of Dobes!! When we got Salem, I thought I had read all the books, Known enough dobes,and investigated all the other 'important' stuff - BUT, once they come home with you, it all seems useless and goes out of the window! LOL :D You then know all the things that no-one tells you about - a bit like having kids!
We have also experienced the same fear from people who don't know the breed - we have got around that by making sure that he is well trained and obediant while we are out. Now most people are used to seeing him and have even starting asking if they can pet him! Most of them have never actually seen a Dobe before but have 'heard such terrible stories of them'. Usually it's the same statements/questions - 'You HAVE children at home with him!!! Is he aggresive? Does he bark alot? Arn't the kids Scared of him?' and so on...........
Salem is a big softie with a bigger heart - and he was definatly hard work as he grew up but it is well worth the hassle. I'd say he has become a pretty good ambassador for the breed We are now getting anothe Dobe (she was born last Saturday) but at least this time we know EXACTLY what we are getting into LOL :D

<<but at least this time we know EXACTLY what we are getting into >>

Famous last words !! Just remember that no two pups are the same and the things that Salem has learnt he will probably pass onto your new pup and she will have some tricks of her own to confound you with.

Christine

The reaction to Dobes will no doubt be worse again after the latest dog-attack story!
LynnT

Is that the one in Ascot?

Fiona
x x x

Yes, the boy and girl. I saw it on teletext news so no details of what happened, other than that the dog had been destroyed and the children were awaiting plastic surgery to their injuries.
LynnT

This does not give any information as to why the dog was able to get out of its garden but here is the story so far on one of the news pages

Ascot

I just hope the kids and their dog are okay

Christine

According to the Telegraph the little girls arm was almost severed and may have to be amputated below the elbow

Apparantly the dog was owned as a guard dog but all of the neighbours have said that it was really well behaved and had always been very friendly.

The children's Scottie is expected to make a full recovery, but the future of the children is uncertain. They will both be suffer permanent scars but it's not known how bad they will be.

Fiona
x x x

Yes, as a male dobe owner of 11 months I am aware of the stares, people walking accross the road when they see Duke and I coming and once I got told "you and your dog should f**k off" while taking him running with me! But I love him, he is elegant, confident and boisterous but loving. He loves people and I can never see him ever turning on people or children. We have a cat and granted sometimes he chases him but he never seems to want to bite him.

It scares me to think that they are capable of doing such things. But certainly this dog that attacked those children was not brought up properly. Sometimes people get dobermen because they are seen as 'hard' dogs and want a 'hard dog' image. They then wrestle with the dog and reinforce the attacking instinct in them. Certainly if he was trained to be a guard dog then the owners must have reinforced this attack instinct in them anyway?

I suppose it is all in the upbringing coupled with the temprament to start with. Although I thought this one had always lived with kids and never been agressive. I suppose it just shows that you have to continually monitor whether any behavioural changes have taken place!!

My Dobe Jake loves people, kids, cats etc but wants to play with evrything and I realise it can make people nervous, so I ahve to be very careful. Jake is 7 months, and I have noticed that when he was "obviously" a puppy, people would say "ooooooooh, isn't he gorgeous" and then after about 10 mins they'd say "is he a Dobe?" whereas now he doesn't look like a puppy, unless people know him they steer clear (his rubbish recall and having to walk him on the lead doesn't help this attitude either, people assume he's agressive )

If anyone thinks Dobes are "hard" they should see the Mockodile. Attention seeking Diva, yes, boisterous, yes but hard ???? Not on your nelly !!!!!!!! :D