Anyone got any opinions on this second book - it seems to go a bit more into depth about Jan's methods ?

Banger what about you being trained then ? I was thinking of asking one of my breeders to guide
me some times it might be the owner's and not the dogs that are getting it wrong LOL
and sausing the dog to seem abit harbour lights as my granddaddy would say

Pat xx

I think your probably right Pat thats why I'm reading Jan's book - Max is a lot better now but just some fine tuning to do lol

havent heard from you for along time, i guess max is much better than he was

Only Joking Banger, But seem to think Max and Zac come from the same pod?
and guess what, walking him very proudly down the road two nights ago a neighbour down the end of the road said O Look that must be the mother of the puppie I was "gob-smacked ".Could not even answer him and say no this is a male But looking at the pink clips my grandaughter had put in Zac's head what could I say and his cut is all wrong looks like he has a hula- hula skirt on the plonker.

Pat xx

Have to say, I wasn't that impressed with the second book - not enough anecdotal stories and I also think that she's a bit vague, could do with more step by step advice. You should try reading some of John Fisher's books, now they are excellent!

Any John Fisher books you could recommend Goink ?

Sorry, I know that message isn't meant for me, but I have a few John Fisher books you can borrow if you want.
I've got 'Dogwise', 'Why does my dog...?' and 'think dog'
I've got a few other ones you might want to borrow, in fact, I practically have a library, which shows just how messed up my dogs are!!
I'm just kidding, they are great boys.
Jo

That would be great Jo can I email you to get contact info ?

Course. It's JoCorney@aol.com.
Glad to be able to help!
Jo

Aawwwww, now don't get me going....you know what I am like when the "behaviourist" word is mentioned!!!!!

I thought the second book was very much like the first....The series on television wasn't very good either..its as though one solution fits all
problems and I couldnt see where she was coming from half the time..

Can't see where she is coming from but can see where she's headed.........straight to the bank :D

Exactly. :D

Nicky

SEE........... its not just me that thinks like this then!

Definitely not just you Sam!!!! What I think of her is not printable.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Agree completely Joan, so unprintable that I would be banned from here if I said what I really think!!!

Mind I suppose she is laughing all the way to the bank

Well - as you all probably know by now, i believe a good behaviourist is worth their weight in gold - there are so many dogs who would have been pts who have been saved by one.i know of many personally, including the dogs of friends, many of whom are last resort cases. Lots of people are wise in "dogdom" and have their own methods etc, but at the end of the day many are stumped and do need more help.

I have lost count of the dogs who have become food aggressive because welll meaning people take away their bowls while they are eatng as a sort of "test". With the help of a behaviourist most of these dogs have been sorted out and, if necessary, will relax if the food bowl does need to be taken.

And please don't anyone say "well we should all be able to take food away from our dogs"....yes we should, but i am talking about owners who have upset their dogs to such a degree that the dogs beceome defensive and so on.....

I'm waffling but ..... re Jan Fennell, how many of her above detractors have actually read her books?! Or is she merely being castigated because of the dreaded B word? <g>

I have read them both, just to make sure I know what mehods she uses because she has got so popular, and still don't like her methods because as has been pointed out, she does use the same methods for each case, and dog training just isn't that prescriptive! One has to be flexible because in each and every case we get owners with different personalities, dogs too, and different environmental factors etc. Also many different causes for problems.

HOwever I do feel she is helpful to first time owners who maynot have a clue, simply because if they follow her methods, their dogs will have some order in their lives. I believe the biggest cause of stress and misbehaviour amongst dogs at home is a lack of security and constant changing of the boundaries. At least Ms Fennell avoids that so lets not totally throw her to the lions.

I do disagree totally with the amount she charges people, I have heard it is near the £200 mark or more. There is no excuse for making that amount of money out of worried owners. I feel it is fair to charge say £40 because most of us spend so much more on a meal out, Christmas pressies for the kids or whatever.....

Lots of great people can give advice for free and if the advice works well then brilliant,but for many a behaviourist is the last port of call, and these sort of dogs have usually been given all the usual suggested treatments, both harsh and kind, before a behavourist is called.

Lastly, i do agree there are are many bad so-called behaviourists, a certain organisation called ****Busters comes to mind....keep well away! Dreadful! But there are good and bad in all walks of life, and a good behaviourist is A) not easy to find but B) may save a dogs' life. The ones who specialise in severe aggression, using an understanding of canine etiquette and stooge dogs, really have my respect. i have seen some at work and count them as friends, and they have saved countless lives and don't charge the earth.

To anyone who has a blanket dislike of B's, i suggest they get to know some of the good ones, see what they do and how they do it.

No offence meant to anyone .

BEst wishes
LIndsay

I dislike her a) because I don't like the way she speaks to people b) because I don't think the same method should be used to treat every problem and c) because I was told about something she did a few years ago which I totally disagree with.

Hi Bec
I agree with your comments on Ms Fennels ideas.
My friend has her first book so I borrowed it and read it, a lot of it is common sense which is apparent in every day dealings with your dogs, but we both felt she was quite contradictory in several things she advocates, so when we found that she was coming to Barnstaple (local large town) to talk we got tickets and went to listen.
We were both amazed at her blatant self promotion & name dropping, and her scathing comments to people who had asked questions were in some instances hurtful, admitedly some peoples questions were really stupid but she didn't have to "put them down" in her responses.
I also feel that there are very wide differences across the 7 groups in dog behaviour, let alone each individual breed, and fail to see how Ms Fennel can promote a cure all. Every breed is different and reacts differently to training as well as what it will & won't do (i.e. sighthounds when "locked on" to a target simply cannot hear your recall, as their senses are subjgated, no matter how well trained).
I think that knowing your individual dogs & breeds and a consistant routine is the best bet for dog training.
Nicky

Banger .This cannot be the same book my breeder told me to get I thought everyone thought
her very good !! Just shows you perhaps her ideas are not so good ,not going to buy the book now. I am very seriously thinking of having the snip on Zac might really make a difference .

Pat

The snip made no difference to Max LOL :rolleyes:

Hi Banger, it's a real pleasure talking to you on the board you seem a real cool person,
well we have been talking about what to do with Zac and this walking problem! Yes he is much better with the face lead now, but still a lot of room for improvement .So I am today looking
around for a training class for both puppies to attend. Hope Zac is not to old at 11 months Freddie fine
at 4 months now.and the snip still not ruled out Hope max is fine and yourself Pat xx

Hi Pat - thanks for that. Max is a lot better these days - he does get the odd day when everything is a problem but these are few and far between thankfully. We found that getting Max the snip didnt really make much difference. I dont regret getting him done because there are some good medical advantages but we found that Max really chilled out when he was on a steriod called Pred. Apparently the steriod takes over hormone production in the body so we were thinking maybe Max is just a bundle of hormones now and again. Anyway hes currently leaning against me while I type this and listening to the dogs bark outside and grumbling LOL

I have to sit at 10am with the curtains closed because Max gets up at the windows and does his nut at the dogs outside, I'm sure the neighbours think we are all still in bed LOL :rolleyes:

ha ha ha curtains closed out side world locked out.Got a lay in today 6am instead of 5am bliss
reason postman son had day off."Zac is mad" in doors under control no problem out side he starts
from when he hears the lead and the head goes from side to side looking for action ,Yet folks
come up and children all over him and he is fine. Freddie the opposite barks at them .
It's Murphys law I HAVE TWO HORRORS
Pat x

Banger
ive read and tried stuff by her as she seemed like magic on TV but I still have one really good dog and a collie that whilst good at home barks madly on the lead so as both dogs have had the same upbringing I dont think these techniques work for all. Plus its awful ignoring them for 10 minutes every time you come into the room!
Elaine

That ignoring thing when you come into the room gets me everytime. She is supposed to have studdied wolves. Well whats the first thing the pack does when one of its members returns?

Goes to greet them bec

Hmmm but this 10 minute thing is also what our current behaviourist Celia has recommended we do too.

I think you need only ignore them until they are calm whether that be 10 minutes or 1 minute

My lot calm down far quicker once I have greeted them than if I ignore them! I just don't understand that if we still consider them behaving like wolves that we should then do what a wolf does surely? Ignoring them is not a typical wolf trait.

Banger, can I be nosy and ask you about your behaviourist? I've seen one called Celia, and their can't be that many!
Jo

Certainly Jo - shes called Celia Bourne and is an associate of John Rogerson based in Ferryhill, Co Durham - is this the same one you have seen ?

It is the same one. Don't suppose it's that surprising now I know you live quite near!
How have you been getting on with her? Have you found it helpful?
The best thing I got from her was her advice on how to get them to come back more reliably. It was fantastic, I could call back Charlie (who is so completely toy focused) when he was running after a ball.
Didn't get the same results with Len, but he is used to being beaten when he comes back, so I don't blame him really. There are times when I could wring the necks of his old owners. They used to live round the corner from me, and have now moved out, without even coming to say goodbye to Len, even though they will never see him again. I couldn't imagine ever being that cold. If I had to part with Len (it was looking like a possibility a while ago) I could never lose contact with him, he is such a special boy.
Jo